The Rose Inn (or The Royal Oak), Greenstreet
Acknowledgments: Barely recorded in official documents, this expanded story arises principally from material supplied by Lyn Fisher (Deeds and associated documents), Trevor Cramp (who compiled two articles for the Teynham Parish News), a letter from Mrs Brightman and the Newspaper Database of Nigel Heriz-Smith (crime reports) and census data.
This striking Calendar was shared with us by Brian Sharman who found it in the effects of Sheila Gambell, whose family have long associations with this part of Kent.
Situated on the north (Teynham) side of Greenstreet, this beer-house was a close neighbour of the Teynham Arms (now the site of Crispins fish and chip shop). In the nineteenth century, "beer-houses" were often a means of supplementing incomes (in particular for widows) using a front room in a family home, supplying beer from a barrel or two to casual trade. However, the "Rose Inn" appears also to have taken the occasional lodger but was not competing directly with the more substantial commercial inns nearby.
- Trevor Cramp provides a very readable account of "The Rose Inn" at the beginning of the 20th century. He was researching the Mushman Family when he found a postcard addressed to his grandmother at "The Rose Inn" - his detective story began.
- Coincidentally, Lyn Fisher contacted the Society, who was researching the Vallance Family, asked if we would like copies of Deeds and associated documents (1859 to 1977) for Wicks Stores (a.k.a. "The Oak Inn" and "The Rose Bakery"..... We have summarised those 16 documents to expand the story.
Images that include The Rose Inn
The Rose Inn
This street-view (looking east towards Greenstreet Hill) is entirely different today. In the distance, at the corner with what is now "Station Road" you can see the "Teynham Arms". The row of cottages from the "Teynham Arms" to the "...and Porter" sign (of The Rose Inn) were also demolished and is now the site of several town-house residences.
The Queen Victoria Jubilee Pump sits on the edge of the road in the middle distance; a hint of St Stephen's Church sits on the crest of Greenstreet Hill.
The Rose Inn
Seen here on the right of a view down Greenstreet (looking west). Many of the buildings in this view are still in existence today.
Some time ago, the arched windows were removed in favour of larger panes of glass favoured by more modern traders to increase display space and "offers" to entice shoppers.
The old Roman Road (part of "Watling Street") steers a very straight line here. Although there is some debate over whether the original Roman Road passed either to the north or south of the present line...
|We have lost all the earlier buildings from the "Teynham Arms" to the point where you can see a man standing on the pavement. That man is outside "The Rose Inn".|
Incidental newspaper reports
To add a bit of colour, we have unearthed a couple of newspaper articles in which "The Rose Inn" was incidentally associated with two examples of crime.......Census Data for 1891 was commented on by Lyn Fisher who provided copies of the Deeds for this property.
|Kentish Gazette of 19th March 1844|
KENT LENT ASSIZES. CROWN SIDE. Stephen Clark was indicted for stealing a jacket, a waistcoat, two flannel shirts, and other articles, the property of Edward Harris, at Preston next Faversham.
Census Data: 1891 - Green Street, Teynham
"Henry Burnett, 40, general labourer & publican of "Rose Inn", wife Mary Ann 32, son Henry J, 14, railway station clerk, James B Duncan, father-in-law, widower, 74, shoemaker + 1 lodger. In 1881 Henry was a police constable in Teynham". (Lyn Fisher)
Workhouse Inquest for Charles Skinsley
|Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald of 3rd December 1898|
|INQUEST AT THE FAVERSHAM WORKHOUSE.- On Saturday last the Deputy Coroner, Mr.C.B.Harris, held an inquest in the Board Room at the Faversham Workhouse on the body of Charles Skinsley, a drover who died on the previous Wednesday under somewhat distressing circumstances.- Mr.C.Whittle was chosen foreman of the jury.- Willis Symonds, a bootmaker, residing at 41, East Street, Sittingbourne, deposed that he had known the deceased for a great many years. He was a drover and unable to do any laborious work on account of being badly ruptured. He was a native of South Ockenden, Essex, and was usually known as Charles Peace. He last saw deceased alive at Sittingbourne on the previous Saturday night, when he was in his usual health.- Henry Pilcher, landlord of the Rose Inn, Greenstreet, said that on Sunday last deceased came to his house and engaged lodgings. He was in a "mopsy" state through the effects of drink, and went to bed between seven and eight o'clock. He stayed in bed all day on Monday, and when he (witness) went to rouse him all he said was "all right". On Tuesday morning, as deceased appeared to be very unwell, witness sent for Dr.Selby, who gave him a paper to take to Mr. Porter, the Relieving Officer. He had known the deceased for 20 years, and he had always gone by the name of Charley Peace. Witness believed deceased slept out in the open air on Saturday night as he found him in the gutter in Teynham Lane about a quarter to seven on Sunday morning.- Mr. Harry T.Porter, Relieving Officer, stated that on the previous Tuesday the last witness brought him a note from Dr.Selby to the effect that a man named Charles Peace was suffering from tetanus, and that he should be removed to the Workhouse Infirmary at once. Witness procured a cab and removed the man who although unable to speak was not unconscious. - Nurse Togan, having given evidence as to receiving the deceased into the Infirmary, Dr.Gange, Medical Officer of the Workhouse, stated that on Tuesday afternoon the Master sent for him stating that a man who had just been admitted into the House was dying from tetanus. Witness found deceased in a comatose state. He could not speak or put out his tongue, and he failed to understand anything. Witness examined him and could not discern any signs of tetanus. He died at about five o'clock on Wednesday afternoon. Witness made a careful examination of the body and failed to find any bruises with the exception of a slight place on the right elbow. He had since, with the assistance of his son, made a post-mortem examination, and on opening deceased's head found the brain very much congested. On the anterior part of the brain there were two very large extravasations of blood. The actual cause of death was apoplexy or congestion of the brain, and it was no doubt accelerated by drink. He should say that the deceased was from 50 to 55 years of age. - The jury returned a verdict in accordance with the medical evidence.|
Licenses at issue
|Dover Express of 9th February 1906|
|FAVERSHAM. LICENSES OBJECTED TO.- The Faversham County Bench of Magistrates gave notice at their meeting on Thursday that they should object to the renewal of the following licenses: The Dolphin, Three Squirrels, and Ship ale houses at Boughton; the Swan ale house at Lynsted; the Crown ale house and Mayors Arms beer house at Ospringe; the Rose beer house at Teynham; the Scots Greys beer house at Throwley; and the beer off-licence held by Mr. Philpott at Davington.|
|Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald of 6th October 1906|
|THE ROSE, GREENSTREET, TEYNHAM. In this case Mr. Roper appeared for the owners and tenant, and Mr. H. Hohler represented the Licensing Justices.
Police Sergeant Nye, of Ospringe, stated that the house was in close proximity to other licensed houses. The population of the parish was 1,839 and there were six licensed houses. The Rose was in good structural condition, but it appeared to do very little trade. In witness's opinion there were too many licensed houses in the street.
Mr. Roper called James Medhurst, who stated that at the time the licence was reported he was the tenant, but now his wife was the tenant. They took in lodgers. The trade of the house included from two to two and a half barrels a week.
Stephen George, builder and registrar of births and deaths for the district, gave the house a good character and said he thought it was necessary for the needs of the district.
James Richard Post, hairdresser, of Teynham stated that he thought the house was necessary.
The Bench granted the renewal of this licence.
[Society Note: James Post's daughter, Alice Post, is commemorated in Teynham because of her untimely death through T.N.T. poisoning during the First World War, 16th January 1916. Her death was one amongst a large number of women who suffered this fate and has been explored by the Society's WW1 Project. Alice's brother, Edward George Post, lost his life in the Far East during the Second World War]
Lapsed Licence for the Rose Beerhouse
|South Eastern Gazette of 22nd February 1916|
|REFERRED FOR COMPENSATION. At the County Petty Sessions on Thursday (Mr. W.W. Berry presiding), the Bench decided to refer to the Compensation Authority the license of the Rose beerhouse, Greenstreet, Teynham, on the ground of redundancy. The Rose is an anti-1869 house, and has been closed since last November, the tenant, E.E. Thorpe, a Navy pensioner, having rejoined the Navy.|
Trevor Cramp's Article about the Rose Inn
Acknowledgements: Carried in the Teynham Magazine, we are grateful to Mr Trevor Cramp for his permission to reproduce his article here. A few changes and additions were also made in correspondence from Mrs Brightman and photographs from John Crunden. Links have also been made to Property documents revealed to us by Lyn Fisher.
(March 2011 - Trevor Cramp) "This journey started, more or less, when I was trawling, for the 'umpteenth' time, through two suitcases of Photographs and Documents that belonged to my Mother, Dorothy, and came across this Postcard, sent to her Mother, Rebecca Mushman, at "The Rose Inn", Greenstreet, Sittingbourne, from Rebecca's Sister, Ruth on 30 December 1910.
Unfortunately for this article, John Henry Mushman (and his Wife, Rebecca), only lived in Greenstreet for about 6 years of his 73 years, but it was this period in his life that produced the most intense research, bearing in mind that it all started with that one Postcard. Indeed, my Parents, for the last few years of their lives, had lived in Borden Village, then in Sittingbourne itself.
So, I have been following the journey of John Henry Mushman, (my Grandfather) who with his newly wed Wife, Rebecca, had travelled to Greenstreet, Teynham, and at this time I was not aware that they had lived in Teynham, until the Post Card brought this to my attention
But, apart from this Post card, I had nothing to go on, I wasn't even aware of Greenstreet, so my Brother suggested that I try the Sittingbourne Museum and of course, I found the premises at the bottom of the High Street. But when I called there one weekday it was closed, Saturday opening only – but, to my amazement, in the window, was a Tea Cloth with the "Rose Inn" emblazoned on it! Wrong "Rose Inn", this is the one up in the High Street, Sittingbourne, just a few yards from the Museum, which was one of the Coaching Inns on the London to Dover route.
So, in July 2009, having been talking to my Mother, who was a bit vague about the story relating to "The Rose Inn" (as she hadn't even been born then), I found the "Sittingbourne Heritage" Website and sent an email describing my search. However, the information that I provided was a bit inaccurate, as I told them that my Grandparents could have lived at Greenstreet between 1915 and 1930. Once I had got into my stride, searching details on Ancestry.co.uk, it became very clear that the dates were wildly out and should have been about 1910, which, if I had looked more closely, was the Postmark on the Post Card.
Very quickly, I received a response from Sittingbourne Heritage Museum, via Brian Sharman, Chairman of the Teynham Parish Council & Webmaster, saying that they had found in the 1891 Census, details of "The Rose Inn" and a Henry Burnett, the Landlord, who was also a General Labourer – so even in those days, you needed two jobs to stay in the Licensed Trade.
My Sister-in-Law then gave me an email address for the "Lynsted with Kingsdown Society", which I subsequently contacted, who proved to be very helpful. Going onto their website I found a lot of Photographs of Greenstreet, which gave a flavour of the period that I was researching.
Nigel Heriz-Smith, Webmaster of the "Lynsted with Kingsdown Society", responded to my request, with information taken from the Sittingbourne, Milton & District Directory showing that in 1903-1904, the occupant of "The Rose Inn" was an Edward Rayner, but by the 1908 - 1909 Directory, John 'Musham' was listed as the occupant of "The Rose Inn", but by 1926,"The Rose Inn" was no longer listed.
At the same time, Brian Sharman came back with additional information regarding the Teynham Tythe Award Schedules, where a Richard Hop was a Tenant of "The Royal Oak" in Greenstreet, although I was unable to determine the date of this document, the assumption being that "The Royal Oak" was the precursor to "The Rose Inn".
The Kelly's Directory of 1911 was still listing 'Mushman, John Henry, Beer Retailer, of Greenstreet and by then, I was able to go into the 1911 Census Records and found John Henry Mushman, Rebecca Mushman and Mabel Crane, (Rebecca's younger Sister, who was staying with them at that time), all at "The Rose Inn", Teynham, Kent.
However, the 1913 Kelly's Directory no longer listed John Henry Mushman as a Commercial Tenant, because we do know that at this time, he and Rebecca had moved to Cliffe at Hoo, Strood, Kent, where my Aunt, Ivy Emily May was born in 1913, followed by my Mother, Dorothy Gwendoline, who was born in 1919.
About this period in time, I thought that I might contact the Shepherd Neame Brewery Archivist, hoping that amongst their records there might be a reference to them owning "The Rose Inn", but they responded by saying that they did not appear to have any contact with "The Rose Inn", only the "Rose Inn", Sittingbourne.
However, going back to the report from Nigel Heriz-Smith, he confirmed that by 1926, "The Rose Inn" no longer featured in the Directories. At the same time, Nigel stated that they were not entirely sure where, exactly, "The Rose Inn" may have been located, but speculated that it might well have been the site where "Christals Hairdressers" are currently situated. He forwarded a photograph of those properties, mentioning at the same time, that the property next door was for many years a Baker Shop, then a General Store and finally, converted to a pair of Semi-detached dwellings.
London Road, Greenstreet, Teynham, assumed to be the site of "The Rose Inn"
Then, out of the 'blue', Nigel emailed me with following information: –
'Confirming, absolutely, that "The Rose Inn" (or beer retailers) occupied the site of what was, until a few years ago, Wicks General Grocers. So, far from being demolished as first assumed, the building is still in use (converted to two dwellings). Quite what the status was of the cottages between the "Teynham Arms" and "The Rose Inn" is not clear – it was the site of these cottages that was cleared and the new houses erected'.
'It was formerly known as "The Oak" and was on land owned by the Honeyball family. Transfer of ownership took place between Style and Winch Brewers and the Vallance family (a family more often associated with Aymers in Lynsted village) in 1905 and freehold in 1917 from the Honeyball family. The retail beer business was managed by Style and Winch, who were also the owners of the nearby "Teynham Arms" (not Shepherd Neame)'.
'Tenants mentioned in Wills and Deeds are: 1905 James Medhurst - remember, an Edward Rayner was shown to be the occupier of 'The Rose Inn', in the 1903 -1904 Directories. I believe that John Henry Mushman occupied "The Rose Inn" after April 1906, and possibly by 1907'.
'By 1923 the property was referred to as "The Rose Bakery" (baker and confectioner) in a mortgage document of 21st November 1923. The loan was to Charles Frank Gambell (interest set at 5½%). A subsequent email from Brian Sharman contained a scan of a family calendar, dated 1924, of C.H.Gambell, The Rose Bakery, Greenstreet, Teynham.
The 1926, Sittingbourne, Milton & District Directory contains in its list - Gambell, Charles Herbert, Baker and Confectioner'.
So, having established that the ownership of "The Rose Inn" was in the hands of Style & Winch Brewers, I tried to obtain details of any Liquor Licence Application by John Henry Mushman, first contacting City Ark, Strood, who were unable to help, because Teynham was outside their area of operations and then, The Centre for Kentish Studies, at Maidstone. Unfortunately, they also, were unable to help me, as it appears that the Licensing Registers for the period 1901 – 1907, were missing from their records.
The final link, I hope, may be provided by Style and Winch Archives – let us hope so!
"The Rose Inn" (2011), now two dwellings.
But in the meantime, sometime between 1912 and the first couple of months of 1913, John Henry Mushman and his Wife, Rebecca, moved on for the second time in their marriage, this time to run a Sweet Shop, Newsagents & Tobacconists in Station Road, Cliffe at Hoo, Strood, severing their ties with "The Rose Inn", Teynham.
Trevor Cramp – March 2011
Teynham Newsletter response (June 2011)
In the next quarterly issue of Teynham Newsletter, more images were provided by John Crunden and a parishioner (Mrs Brightman) wrote a letter.
Letter to the Editor
"Reading the Summer issue of Teynham News was very interesting. I hope to read of responses in future Teynham News.
I cannot remember the Rose Inn or the Teynham Arms, but I can remember the Rose Bakery. I believe Mr Charles Gambell was also a milkman (who was known as the midnight milkman!!) [Ed. Apparently because of his laid back approach to delivering that day's milk.]
The Teynham Arms was on the corner of Teynham Lane, then a small grocer's shop and a fish and chip shop. The present owner Mr G Stanley of Crispin's may be able to give some help here. Seven cottages were before the Rose Bakery run by a Mr Clarke and then a wool shop run by a Miss Smith before Nethercoat's sweet shop and tea-room.
Mrs J Brightman
The Story of 'The Rose Inn', Greenstreet, Teynham
Following the article in the last issue of Teynham News we were contacted by Mr John Crunden who was able to provide us with the photograph (left) showing a corner of what was The Rose Inn. The sign over the windows probably read 'Stout and Porter', popular drinks at that time. The picture is thought to be circa 1910.
A later photograph (right) shows the Inn having been converted into a Bakery; the original distinctive windows and the lean-to can be clearly seen. The name on the sign reads – F.L. CLARKE. HOVIS as observed by Mrs Brightman above and confirmed in the advert below.
It is believed that Charles Frank Gambell had already occupied the 'The Rose Bakery' several years before purchasing it from F.L. Clarke in 1923. This therefore would make the above photograph of the Bakery pre-1923.
Update: C.H. Gambell ownership given now beginning in July 1920. (added 12th November 2020)
|East Kent Gazette of 3rd July 1920|
|C.H. GAMBELL. Baker and confectioner, Greenstreet, has pleasure in announcing that he has secured more convenient business premises. On and after TODAY (Saturday) his business will be carried on at the Premises formerly the Rose public house.
Bread and flour of the best quality. Cakes and Pastry Goods of all kinds. Parties catered for. Dainty Afternoon Teas. Open for Teas and Refreshments on Sunday Afternoons and Evenings.